I think it suggests there’s a difference between complaints and discussions. A complaint is often one-sided. You express what you believe is wrong, and the other party can respond accordingly. A discussion, on the other hand, involves multiple people actively engaging in a conversation, exploring what happened, why it happened, and possibly what it means for the future.
But I could be wrong.
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As a developer and a member of the LGBTQ+ community, I believe that the foundation and management’s response has not only been detrimental to Godot’s development but has also accelerated its division—something that could have been avoided. I can express my views on other appropriate platforms, rather than in the Godot community, where shifting attention from the engine to other issues, such as whether you support LGBTQ+, brings no benefit to the engine itself.
I use Godot not to seek validation from others, but because it is an excellent tool. Now, this situation has hindered people from actively contributing to the improvement and advancement of Godot, making it difficult not to worry about whether other issues might cause even greater negative impacts in the future. This is something I, as a developer, did not want to see when I chose Godot.
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The key issue is not ‘whether someone supports a particular viewpoint’, but rather ‘whether topics unrelated to the game engine should be discussed’, such as ‘do you support LGBTQ+’.More discussions unrelated to the game engine will undoubtedly distract people’s attention, which doesn’t help the engine’s development and could even lead to further division. Whether division has already occurred or not, there’s no need to take that risk. This is why sponsors ask for simplicity—to maintain focus on the engine itself and minimize the risk of attention shifting to other matters.
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Agreed. The support by Godot wasn’t a discussion. It was a statement, never asking for anyone’s input. You know who perpetuates this discussion? You and the bigots you’re enabling, and the conspiracy theorists. Move on.
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Do any of you guys use Windows? Linux? Mac? Guess what? All of them have made public statements supporting LGBTQ+ in the past. Are you going to boycott them too? Probably not. If you’re going to be prejudiced, at least be consistent.
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You completely misunderstood my point. It was the Godot Foundation’s ‘statement’ that brought about this confrontation. We’re not here to discuss whether to support something or not; we’re here to clarify that ‘regardless of support or opposition, this is not the position the Godot Foundation itself should be taking.’
As a member of the LGBTQ+ community, I neither support nor oppose you. Whether you support it or not is irrelevant to me.
I just hope the foundation can retract this statement, because its stance opened the door to this discussion.
I simply want Godot to stay away from issues like diversity, immigration, racial discrimination, white supremacy, or anything of that sort. It just needs to focus on itself.
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The decision for Godot to support LGBTQ+ is theirs and theirs alone. You or anyone else don’t have the right to take that away from them. End of story. Godot is fine and will continue to be.
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You still don’t seem to realize the core issue. Of course, they have the right to hold and express their own stance.
The foundation members certainly have the right to express their views on LGBTQ+ issues, environmental protection, animal rights, immigration, abortion, racial issues, and so on.
But now they’ve made a statement on gender diversity, regardless of whether it’s supportive or not. Will they, in the future, issue statements on other topics in the name of Godot?
Everyone active in the community has the right to hold their own positions and views on these issues. Everyone has that right.
When these active people with different stances gather in the community and see a position being taken in the name of Godot, it’s inevitable that their opinions on these issues will not align. This lack of alignment leads to division and conflict. Each unrelated topic introduces a certain degree of division, and it may drive away potential contributors. Eventually, those who could have made great contributions to Godot will be completely fragmented. Is this really what you want to see?
The Godot community is not a place to assert rights over issues unrelated to Godot itself.
Foundation members are fully capable of expressing their opinions on their personal social media accounts, where they can still gain attention, but it would be separate from Godot.
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Trying to talk to someone like them is like talking to a child or brick wall, they are stuf on the I’m only right and you are wrong path. I myself like many others are pretty bummed that a crazy community manager(most likely the person blaming everyone and calling them names) has now given Godot a terrible image.
They really need to reign people in that go out of their way to destroy products and cause trouble just to cause trouble.
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Yep!
Unreal too bloated and crashes too often.
Flax you don’t get paid for contributing but you pay to use.
Stride a contender.
Godot not a true game engine, a prototype system at best.
Unity is reasonable. Time to move back.
Aloha
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I don’t give up yet. I like the fork idea.
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I believe the initial twitter post about wokeness was just a mild joke that fell on deaf ears and also illogically mistimed due to all controversies surrounding the insertion of political agenda in video gaming. This twitter post made it seem like Godot (as a mere game engine) tried to take a stance by joining the fray of products that failed miserably within the last two months due to that exact controversial reason.
I think the person who managed the godot twitter account made a mistake in trying to spread the agenda (that they personally agree with) by making a public post like this. They are free to express that stance on their personal account. Godot should never pick a side, it should never express and approve of sociopolitical, religious and ideological viewpoints or try to make it into a topic of discussion.
In my eyes, Godot is a friend to all gamers and people involved in game development. This naturally includes people of all ages, all genders, all countries. Gaming is a safe space without borders and no distinctions and favoritism. Godot should never express something in the lines of
- Show us your #wokot #circumcised #white #black #asian #communism #capitalism #female #male games below
As long as Godot abides to this (and I believe I am reasonable to express that desire), we as a community can be sure that Godot stays the product that we used to cherish and support and will continue to do so in the future.
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Two years ago, I didn’t know what woke meant. It wasn’t until some populist politicians began using the term in a derogatory way to rally opposition against their political opponents that I became aware of it.
If you share the views of these politicians, label woke as political, and ban it, aren’t you then becoming politically active yourselves?
Godot is financially supported by the Godot Foundation, a non-profit organization formed on August 23rd, 2022 via the KVK (number 87351919) in the Netherlands.
Anyone who lives in a democratic country and stands up for its values is woke. It’s not about being gay, and no one is forcing you to be. The Netherlands is also a democratic country and decriminalized homosexuality as early as 1811. A sad comparison: In Germany, it was only partially decriminalized in 1969 and fully in 1994, despite the fact that the constitution states that “all people are equal”.
If Godot stands up for woke values, to me, it’s not about politics but a necessity to provide protection for everyone. Every successful company has been following this strategy for over 20 years – those who don’t won’t survive long due to toxicity and injustice.
Twitter (now X) was also woke in the past, but it was bought two years ago by an anti-woke populist who confuses hate speech with free speech. So, the real issue is the platform where things are posted.
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No, I don’t think it’s a necessity to “stand up for woke values”. If it was a necessity to “survive”, then how has Blender survived so long without taking a stand on this kind of topic?
And again, the main problem is not so much that Godot’s CM has addressed this subject, the problem is that she has banned all those who asked that Godot remain neutral (banning trolls, insults, etc. remains justified, but banning a “focus on the engine, not politics” is not at all, and I dont think it was just a “mistake” as the Foundation seems to say)
Either Godot remains more or less neutral, like Blender. Or Godot talks about divisive topics, like “wokisme”, but then we have to accept all different (and respectful) points of view.
My personal opinion is that Godot should probably just follow Blender and remain neutral, but that’s just my opinion.
As Godot is a community and an open source project, MAYBE the best thing for the Foundation would be to even make a poll to clarify all this ? Something like:
Do you want Godot to remain neutral on more or less all topics (other than the engine of course) or do you want us to talk about diverse and varied topics (while accepting a respectful debate and open to opposing opinions) ?
Anyway, I just hope it was a bad one time drama and that the community won’t split too much and that Godot will continue to improve 
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Can you give an example of both cases?
Does the “protection for everyone” include the protection of those affected by woke?
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Nope. This is a political agenda of Godot’s leadership and can’t be blamed on one person. It started earlier on this forum. The problem is much broader than that.
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It’s very interesting, but how realistic is it?
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There is no discussion here. Uncomfortable posts are hidden.
You are very insightful.
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I worry about it being successful too. It’s better than no options at all.
I’d be happy with them getting rid of the one that stirred the pot to begin with and apologize for straying from their original mission.
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Does the “protection for everyone” include the protection of those affected by woke?
I see Moscow in your profile. In this case, I understand why it is political for you. Which of this information do you agree with?
ATTENTION: Your government will consider such information as Western propaganda and you could be liable to prosecution.
In Russia, LGBTQ+ rights, especially for gay individuals, are severely restricted. A 2013 “anti-gay propaganda” law bans promoting homosexuality to minors, often used to suppress LGBTQ+ activities and protests. Homophobia is widespread, with LGBTQ+ people facing societal discrimination, harassment, and violence. There are no legal protections for LGBTQ+ individuals, such as anti-discrimination laws or recognition of same-sex partnerships. Violence against LGBTQ+ people is common and often goes unpunished. Despite international criticism, Russia shows no signs of changing its stance on LGBTQ+ rights.
How can you protect yourself?
My suggestion would be as long as there is no acceptance for this in your country, simply ignore all messages with symbols that stand for woke values. So that you and your family don’t come to any harm.
Can you give an example of both cases?
Note: Woke also means equalization between women and men. Of course, it depends on the country and religion. Here are some examples for US companies. There are penalties if the companies behave anti-woke and, for example, sexually harass women.
Successful companies following this strategy:
Companies like Microsoft and Google have long embraced diversity, inclusion, and “woke” values by fostering a positive work environment, addressing social issues, and promoting equality. These values have helped them attract top talent, maintain a positive public image, and grow into highly successful global enterprises. By addressing issues such as workplace harassment and promoting equality, they’ve reduced internal toxicity and built strong, sustainable cultures.
Companies that failed due to toxicity and injustice:
A notable example is Uber during its early years. Uber faced major public backlash for a toxic work culture, including reports of sexual harassment and discrimination, which led to a loss of trust from both employees and customers. The scandals resulted in several leadership changes, including the resignation of the CEO, and damaged the company’s reputation, causing significant financial and operational setbacks.
Activision Blizzard
One of the largest gaming companies, Activision Blizzard, has faced accusations of sexual harassment, discrimination, and a toxic workplace culture in recent years. These issues led to lawsuits, employee protests, and significant reputational harm, causing the company to lose talent and face financial consequences.
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